Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:07 AM - Re: EFIS Comparisons (Jan de Jong)
2. 06:30 AM - Re: EFIS Comparisons (Greg Vouga)
3. 07:55 AM - Re: EFIS Comparisons (Mike)
4. 08:37 AM - Re: EFIS Comparisons (Chuck Jensen)
5. 09:05 AM - Re: EFIS Comparisons (Tim Olson)
6. 09:21 AM - Re: EFIS Comparisons (LarryRosen@comcast.net)
7. 12:11 PM - BMA EFIS ON EBAY (Brinker)
8. 01:18 PM - Re: BMA EFIS ON EBAY (Terry Watson)
9. 03:17 PM - Re: BMA EFIS ON EBAY (Brinker)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
I'm not at that stage yet and don't have a spreadsheet.
I would like to mention what I think is the most important feature of
all: is it failsafe.
Will it tell you when a function is not working? Or will it lie to you?
The more useful a function the more you rely on it. The more you rely on
it the greater the danger.
The failsafe feature involves the crosschecking of built-in redundancy
and must have been designed in from the beginning.
The alternative is to supply both the redundancy and the monitoring
externally yourself - increasing cost, workload.and insecurity.
Good luck.
Jan de Jong
Greg Vouga wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Greg Vouga" <gmvouga@hotmail.com>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide which
>one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
>frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of several
>new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last year.
>I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
>decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a spreadsheet
>that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
>
>Thanks,
>Greg
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Greg Vouga" <gmvouga@hotmail.com>
I agree, reliability is definitely going to weigh in on my decision.
>From: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
>To: avionics-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Avionics-List: EFIS Comparisons
>Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:08:52 +0100
>
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
>
>I'm not at that stage yet and don't have a spreadsheet.
>I would like to mention what I think is the most important feature of
>all: is it failsafe.
>Will it tell you when a function is not working? Or will it lie to you?
>The more useful a function the more you rely on it. The more you rely on
>it the greater the danger.
>The failsafe feature involves the crosschecking of built-in redundancy
>and must have been designed in from the beginning.
>The alternative is to supply both the redundancy and the monitoring
>externally yourself - increasing cost, workload.and insecurity.
>Good luck.
>Jan de Jong
>
>Greg Vouga wrote:
>
> >--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Greg Vouga" <gmvouga@hotmail.com>
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide
>which
> >one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
> >frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of
>several
> >new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last
>year.
> >I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
> >decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a
>spreadsheet
> >that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Greg
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net>
Greg,
I have used most of the systems out there from the Dynon up to the
Honeywell systems. The system I settled on was the Chilton EFIS with a
Blue Mountain EFIS G-3 Lite as a backup. I also incorporated the
Trutrak Gyro stabilized Sorcerer autopilot as a standalone gyro
platform.
The reason for the Chilton was all the functions with the history of
reliability and customer satisfaction. I can't understate the number of
functions in the Chilton; here are a few that I thought were very
important. First the Chilton has full flight management including
Stars, Sid, Jet airways and Victor airways. It has every runway
approach and is very easy to use. For the VFR pilot this may not be
very important but for the IFR pilot no other EFIS comes close in the
price range. Another function is the ground mapping with obstacles,
these days more and more EFIS systems are offering this function but the
Chilton offers an additional feature, it has a terrain warning system
like the ground proximity on the airliners and transport aircraft. So
if you are running around and something pops up in front of you, you
will get a voice and visual command to pull up. This function is worth
its weight in gold if you fly in poor weather or at night. The Chilton
also offers full flight director function, full digital autopilot
integration with the Trutrak line, satellite weather, TIS traffic
warning, Storm Scope function, a performance gliding function which give
you information for gliding distance in the event of an engine failure.
This function is dynamic in that it corrects for wind, direction of
travel and height above terrain. The Chilton is also scaleable, you can
add as much redundancy as you can afford. You could have up to four
gyros, GPS's, and Air Data Computer if you wanted making it a standalone
system. The down side is cost. The basic two screen system with most
of the function listed above is around $27,000.
On to the Dynon, I have flown behind this unit in several aircraft. At
face value for the price it is a good unit. I have not had a failure
and it seems to perform good to fair. Sometimes it does strange things
in Yaw and Roll but seems to be stable overall. As far as the engine
monitor system I think it is a waste of money, there are many other
unites out their that are better and more readable such as the Grand
Rapids, Advanced Flight Systems AF-2500 (great unit), or the I-K
Technologies AIM-3000 or 4000. I would not consider the Dynon as a
primary for IFR but it would make a good backup or VFR unit.
The unit that I liked better then the Dynon for simple operations was
the Blue Mountain EFIS. On function that put the BM above the Dynon is
it's intergraded Nav GPS function. For a few hundred bucks you also get
a GPS with map and also a Nav interface for LOC/GS interface. The
performance of the small G3 over the old Lite is much improved. It is
on par with the Dynon for rates and stability, whereas the older unit
was a boat anchor. The EFIS one from BM is nice but it is pricey for
what you get. You have a unit that is not stand alone and never well be
with no flight management function. So it is a VFR navigator only. One
other thing to mention is that bigger is not always better, I fly an
Airbus to fund my small airplane interests and it has a smaller screen
then the BM. What I'm trying to say is that the BM looks good but
wastes precious panel space with the very large screen.
On to OP Technologies, from what I have seen this is a good unit that
has many functions of the Chilton for less money and they put it on your
choice of different size screens. I have briefly flown behind this unit
and find that it seems to work very well. The only issues I have heard
from owners is they are still teething with the software.
The Grand Rapids Technologies units are also a good choice for the
money. They have a little less on the function and the glitter but work
very well. I would say the GRT stability and reliability is almost on
par with the Chilton. The GRT is a little cruder but works very well.
A little note is that GRT has been making units for different companies
and has been in the business of Avionics for a long time, so they have a
good track record.
And lastly is Avidyne, very pricey but works well and like the Chilton
has a certified version. My personal opinion is that like Gamin the
Avidyne is not very ergonomic and can be difficult to use intuitively,
all and all very stable and reliable.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Vouga
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: Avionics-List: EFIS Comparisons
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Greg Vouga" <gmvouga@hotmail.com>
Hi all,
I've been muddling through all the different EFIS's trying to decide
which
one to put in my RV-7A. I'm leaning toward the Blue Mountain E-1, but
frankly, the company scares the hell out of me. I've even heard of
several
new systems that have come to market (or are about to) over the last
year.
I'd like to put together a comparison of features to help me with my
decision. Has anyone already done this? If you already have a
spreadsheet
that you wouldn't mind sharing I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Greg
--
1/11/2006
--
1/11/2006
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | EFIS Comparisons |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Greg,
Chuck Jensen
Greg,
Mike's summary of the features and relative merits of the individual
company's (a VERY important instrument feature) as well as the dollar
value of each seems reasonably accurate and comprehensive.
I too canvassed the features of each of the listed units, though I did
not have the same operating experience as Mike. I came to the
conclusion that GRT EFIS represented the best value for high
reliability, excellent feature set and unquestioned company credibility.
After a few hundred hours of flying the dual GRT EFIS and TruTrak GSVS
A/P, I have nothing but satisfaction to report. Yes, the resolution on
the GRT screen is a bit low, but for PFD and engine information
purposes, its more than accurate. Depicting weather and terrain may
suffer a little, but unless you're a Freight Dog or fly a lot of heavy
IFR in heavy traffic area (i.e. if you flight plan Newark, NJ) you will
find it very satisfactory. Not quite as polished as the Chilton, but
then, you can buy a lot of avgas with the $17,000 difference.
Chuck
Velocity XLRG
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net>
Greg,
I have used most of the systems out there from the Dynon up to the
Honeywell systems. The system I settled on was the Chilton EFIS with a
Blue Mountain EFIS G-3 Lite as a backup. I also incorporated the
Trutrak Gyro stabilized Sorcerer autopilot as a standalone gyro
platform.
The reason for the Chilton was all the functions with the history of
reliability and customer satisfaction. I can't understate the number of
functions in the Chilton; here are a few that I thought were very
important. First the Chilton has full flight management including
Stars, Sid, Jet airways and Victor airways. It has every runway
approach and is very easy to use. For the VFR pilot this may not be
very important but for the IFR pilot no other EFIS comes close in the
price range. Another function is the ground mapping with obstacles,
these days more and more EFIS systems are offering this function but the
Chilton offers an additional feature, it has a terrain warning system
like the ground proximity on the airliners and transport aircraft. So
if you are running around and something pops up in front of you, you
will get a voice and visual command to pull up. This function is worth
its weight in gold if you fly in poor weather or at night. The Chilton
also offers full flight director function, full digital autopilot
integration with the Trutrak line, satellite weather, TIS traffic
warning, Storm Scope function, a performance gliding function which give
you information for gliding distance in the event of an engine failure.
This function is dynamic in that it corrects for wind, direction of
travel and height above terrain. The Chilton is also scaleable, you can
add as much redundancy as you can afford. You could have up to four
gyros, GPS's, and Air Data Computer if you wanted making it a standalone
system. The down side is cost. The basic two screen system with most
of the function listed above is around $27,000.
On to the Dynon, I have flown behind this unit in several aircraft. At
face value for the price it is a good unit. I have not had a failure
and it seems to perform good to fair. Sometimes it does strange things
in Yaw and Roll but seems to be stable overall. As far as the engine
monitor system I think it is a waste of money, there are many other
unites out their that are better and more readable such as the Grand
Rapids, Advanced Flight Systems AF-2500 (great unit), or the I-K
Technologies AIM-3000 or 4000. I would not consider the Dynon as a
primary for IFR but it would make a good backup or VFR unit.
The unit that I liked better then the Dynon for simple operations was
the Blue Mountain EFIS. On function that put the BM above the Dynon is
it's intergraded Nav GPS function. For a few hundred bucks you also get
a GPS with map and also a Nav interface for LOC/GS interface. The
performance of the small G3 over the old Lite is much improved. It is
on par with the Dynon for rates and stability, whereas the older unit
was a boat anchor. The EFIS one from BM is nice but it is pricey for
what you get. You have a unit that is not stand alone and never well be
with no flight management function. So it is a VFR navigator only. One
other thing to mention is that bigger is not always better, I fly an
Airbus to fund my small airplane interests and it has a smaller screen
then the BM. What I'm trying to say is that the BM looks good but
wastes precious panel space with the very large screen.
On to OP Technologies, from what I have seen this is a good unit that
has many functions of the Chilton for less money and they put it on your
choice of different size screens. I have briefly flown behind this unit
and find that it seems to work very well. The only issues I have heard
from owners is they are still teething with the software.
The Grand Rapids Technologies units are also a good choice for the
money. They have a little less on the function and the glitter but work
very well. I would say the GRT stability and reliability is almost on
par with the Chilton. The GRT is a little cruder but works very well.
A little note is that GRT has been making units for different companies
and has been in the business of Avionics for a long time, so they have a
good track record.
And lastly is Avidyne, very pricey but works well and like the Chilton
has a certified version. My personal opinion is that like Gamin the
Avidyne is not very ergonomic and can be difficult to use intuitively,
all and all very stable and reliable.
Mike
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
You guys and you're "Chiltons". I use those for fixing
my truck. But for flying, I'm planning instead to use
my "Cheltons".
http://www.chelton.com/comp/company_profile.asp?companyid=12
http://www.d2av.com/
<all in good fun...and to help keep the archives full of
proper search terms>
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Chuck Jensen wrote:
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Greg,
>
>
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
> Greg,
>
> Mike's summary of the features and relative merits of the individual
> company's (a VERY important instrument feature) as well as the dollar
> value of each seems reasonably accurate and comprehensive.
>
> I too canvassed the features of each of the listed units, though I did
> not have the same operating experience as Mike. I came to the
> conclusion that GRT EFIS represented the best value for high
> reliability, excellent feature set and unquestioned company credibility.
>
>
> After a few hundred hours of flying the dual GRT EFIS and TruTrak GSVS
> A/P, I have nothing but satisfaction to report. Yes, the resolution on
> the GRT screen is a bit low, but for PFD and engine information
> purposes, its more than accurate. Depicting weather and terrain may
> suffer a little, but unless you're a Freight Dog or fly a lot of heavy
> IFR in heavy traffic area (i.e. if you flight plan Newark, NJ) you will
> find it very satisfactory. Not quite as polished as the Chilton, but
> then, you can buy a lot of avgas with the $17,000 difference.
>
> Chuck
> Velocity XLRG
>
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net>
>
> Greg,
>
> I have used most of the systems out there from the Dynon up to the
> Honeywell systems. The system I settled on was the Chilton EFIS with a
> Blue Mountain EFIS G-3 Lite as a backup. I also incorporated the
> Trutrak Gyro stabilized Sorcerer autopilot as a standalone gyro
> platform.
>
> The reason for the Chilton was all the functions with the history of
> reliability and customer satisfaction. I can't understate the number of
> functions in the Chilton; here are a few that I thought were very
> important. First the Chilton has full flight management including
> Stars, Sid, Jet airways and Victor airways. It has every runway
> approach and is very easy to use. For the VFR pilot this may not be
> very important but for the IFR pilot no other EFIS comes close in the
> price range. Another function is the ground mapping with obstacles,
> these days more and more EFIS systems are offering this function but the
> Chilton offers an additional feature, it has a terrain warning system
> like the ground proximity on the airliners and transport aircraft. So
> if you are running around and something pops up in front of you, you
> will get a voice and visual command to pull up. This function is worth
> its weight in gold if you fly in poor weather or at night. The Chilton
> also offers full flight director function, full digital autopilot
> integration with the Trutrak line, satellite weather, TIS traffic
> warning, Storm Scope function, a performance gliding function which give
> you information for gliding distance in the event of an engine failure.
> This function is dynamic in that it corrects for wind, direction of
> travel and height above terrain. The Chilton is also scaleable, you can
> add as much redundancy as you can afford. You could have up to four
> gyros, GPS's, and Air Data Computer if you wanted making it a standalone
> system. The down side is cost. The basic two screen system with most
> of the function listed above is around $27,000.
>
> On to the Dynon, I have flown behind this unit in several aircraft. At
> face value for the price it is a good unit. I have not had a failure
> and it seems to perform good to fair. Sometimes it does strange things
> in Yaw and Roll but seems to be stable overall. As far as the engine
> monitor system I think it is a waste of money, there are many other
> unites out their that are better and more readable such as the Grand
> Rapids, Advanced Flight Systems AF-2500 (great unit), or the I-K
> Technologies AIM-3000 or 4000. I would not consider the Dynon as a
> primary for IFR but it would make a good backup or VFR unit.
>
> The unit that I liked better then the Dynon for simple operations was
> the Blue Mountain EFIS. On function that put the BM above the Dynon is
> it's intergraded Nav GPS function. For a few hundred bucks you also get
> a GPS with map and also a Nav interface for LOC/GS interface. The
> performance of the small G3 over the old Lite is much improved. It is
> on par with the Dynon for rates and stability, whereas the older unit
> was a boat anchor. The EFIS one from BM is nice but it is pricey for
> what you get. You have a unit that is not stand alone and never well be
> with no flight management function. So it is a VFR navigator only. One
> other thing to mention is that bigger is not always better, I fly an
> Airbus to fund my small airplane interests and it has a smaller screen
> then the BM. What I'm trying to say is that the BM looks good but
> wastes precious panel space with the very large screen.
>
> On to OP Technologies, from what I have seen this is a good unit that
> has many functions of the Chilton for less money and they put it on your
> choice of different size screens. I have briefly flown behind this unit
> and find that it seems to work very well. The only issues I have heard
> from owners is they are still teething with the software.
>
> The Grand Rapids Technologies units are also a good choice for the
> money. They have a little less on the function and the glitter but work
> very well. I would say the GRT stability and reliability is almost on
> par with the Chilton. The GRT is a little cruder but works very well.
> A little note is that GRT has been making units for different companies
> and has been in the business of Avionics for a long time, so they have a
> good track record.
>
> And lastly is Avidyne, very pricey but works well and like the Chilton
> has a certified version. My personal opinion is that like Gamin the
> Avidyne is not very ergonomic and can be difficult to use intuitively,
> all and all very stable and reliable.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: EFIS Comparisons |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: LarryRosen@comcast.net
But not when you put Do No Archive in the post.
Larry Rosen
All in Good fun :-)
Tim wrote:
...
<all in good fun...and to help keep the archives full of
> proper search terms>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BMA EFIS ON EBAY |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com>
There's a BMA EFIS on ebay item number 4603954375 No it's not
mine just thought it may be of interest.
One thing I noticed in the pic's was the size of the AHRS computer
mannnn that thing is gigantic. If it is as big as it looks seems like it
woulb be a chore finding a place to mount it.
Randy
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | BMA EFIS ON EBAY |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
It's big, but I think "gigantic" is waaay overstated. Mine fits between the
instrument panel and the baggage bulkhead of my RV-8A and leaves room for
the recessed screen between it and the panel (just barely) and most of the
room ahead of the panel is available for other instruments and radios. A
better location in the RV-8 might be behind the back seat, or in the front
baggage compartment. The dimensions shown on the website are 9" front to
back; 9.725" side to side and 4.08" tall. This doesn't include the
shock-mounting feet or space for wiring connectors. It must be oriented
correctly for the internal sensors to work properly.
Terry
RV-8A finishing
Seattle
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com>
There's a BMA EFIS on ebay item number 4603954375 No it's not
mine just thought it may be of interest.
One thing I noticed in the pic's was the size of the AHRS computer
mannnn that thing is gigantic. If it is as big as it looks seems like it
woulb be a chore finding a place to mount it.
Randy
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: BMA EFIS ON EBAY |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com>
It looks a lot bigger in pic than the dimension's given on website.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: Avionics-List: BMA EFIS ON EBAY
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> It's big, but I think "gigantic" is waaay overstated. Mine fits between
> the
> instrument panel and the baggage bulkhead of my RV-8A and leaves room for
> the recessed screen between it and the panel (just barely) and most of the
> room ahead of the panel is available for other instruments and radios. A
> better location in the RV-8 might be behind the back seat, or in the front
> baggage compartment. The dimensions shown on the website are 9" front to
> back; 9.725" side to side and 4.08" tall. This doesn't include the
> shock-mounting feet or space for wiring connectors. It must be oriented
> correctly for the internal sensors to work properly.
>
> Terry
> RV-8A finishing
> Seattle
>
>
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com>
>
> There's a BMA EFIS on ebay item number 4603954375 No it's not
> mine just thought it may be of interest.
> One thing I noticed in the pic's was the size of the AHRS
> computer
>
> mannnn that thing is gigantic. If it is as big as it looks seems like it
> woulb be a chore finding a place to mount it.
>
> Randy
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|