---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/07/07: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:35 AM - Re: Re: Magnetic Rib Clamping (Steve Glass) 2. 03:57 AM - Sky Scout not sold---remains at Brodhead (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 3. 05:32 AM - Re: Corvair cowling (rod wooller) 4. 06:10 AM - HP vs Speed, Wing Spars (tbyh@aol.com) 5. 07:05 AM - Bowers Pietenpol Article (Tom Winter) 6. 07:54 AM - Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article (Jim Markle) 7. 08:05 AM - Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article (Catdesigns) 8. 10:34 AM - Re: HP vs Speed () 9. 11:02 AM - Re: HP vs Speed (tbyh@aol.com) 10. 11:14 AM - New web site on mid air collision avoidance comment solicitation (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 11. 11:16 AM - Re: HP vs Speed (Dave Abramson) 12. 12:14 PM - Re: HP vs Speed do not archive () 13. 01:03 PM - HP vs Speed do not archive (Oscar Zuniga) 14. 01:27 PM - Stillwater, OK New member (James Nichols) 15. 01:33 PM - Re: Stillwater, OK New member (Terry Hall) 16. 01:48 PM - Re: Stillwater, OK New member (pietn38b@aol.com) 17. 03:28 PM - Re: Stillwater, OK New member (Steve Ruse) 18. 05:09 PM - Re: Stillwater, OK New member (Michael Conkling) 19. 07:37 PM - Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article (Jim Markle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:56 AM PST US From: "Steve Glass" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Magnetic Rib Clamping Just to let you know there are lots of "rare earth magnet" bargains on ebay. I bought some to make some jigs that attach to the metal top of the table saw. Would it be easier to use a piece of steel as a rib building board and glue the guide blocks on to it and then simply use loose magnets on top of the gussets and against the cap strips. They would stick anywhere. Steve in Maine >From: Clif Dawson >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Magnetic Rib Clamping >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 23:46:00 -0700 > > >You need a different magnet. > >http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32066&cat=1,42363,42348 > >http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32065&cat=1,42363,42348 > >Also, are you drilling out shallow holes to bring the magnet >flush with the board? If so, why not just glue them in? > >Clif > > >>I also learned that those magnets are very very brittle. Screwing them >>down to the board, I broke 6 of them. I will post some of my pics soon. >> >>Greg >> > > _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout not sold---remains at Brodhead From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Slight change in the program to my previous post about Dennis Hall selling his Sky Scout to a gent in Michigan. Dennis changed his mind about selling and the plane will remain as is with Dennis in Brodhead. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:42 AM PST US From: "rod wooller" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair cowling Tom I typed www.hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/index and got in no trouble. Rod Wooller >From: "Tom Stinemetze" >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair cowling >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:38:59 -0500 > >For whatever the reason, the link to Hans' site won't work for me. Any >suggestions? > Hans VanderVoort has an award winning Piet/Vair with a J-3 style > > cowling. Check it out at http://hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/index > > ----- Original Message ----- >Tom Stinemetze >____ | ____ > \8/ > / \ > > ><< ClearDayBkgrd.JPG >> _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Make shopping exciting. Find what you want at www.eBay.com.au ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed, Wing Spars From: tbyh@aol.com Keep in mind that according to?some formula that I saw somewhere, to double an aircraft's speed will require?FOUR times the horsepower. I think this also applies to stock cars, baby buggies, bicycles and other conveyance contraptions.* For example, to get a 100-mph, 150-HP Super Cub up to 200 mph, would?require 600-hp. A Pratt & Whitney 1340 (T-6/SNJ engine) would probably do the trick, but then again you'd need to adjust the aircraft's weight and balance slightly! This would?also require a new name -- the Super-Duper Cub! Would?most likely?also require a "slightly" larger rudder to offset takeoff torque...and your range/endurance would probably drop to one "bump and go."?? Regarding wing spars -- If using 1-inch thick spars per BHP plans, then it is recommended to?rout the spars to save some weight -- but the top and bottoms of the spars are 1-inch thick.? If using 3/4-inch thick spars, DO NOT rout the spars and 1/4-inch of material is added where the ribs meet the spars if the ribs are built per the BHP plans. That is the difference. If I'm wrong on this, somebody please correct me.? Meanwhile, my Piet project is now sitting on the landing gear in the basement. I've been doing some finishing work (i.e. sanding) on the tail surfaces and working out the brake arrangement and other details. Hope to post some pics one of these days... Was great to see everyone at Brodhead, especially Mike Cuy, Jack Phillips and their compadres?from Ohio --?also Ken Perkins.? I photographically documented Don Emch's "reveille" flight at 5:46 a.m. Saturday morning at Brodhead. I had walked over for a shower about 5:00 a.m. thinking that surely I would be first in line, but you have to get up pretty early to get ahead of Piet builders/flyers/enthusiasts! There were already three fellows ahead of me! I think this is also a function of the Piet's cruise speed -- being associated with Pietenpol airplanes has gradually made us all evolve into creatures that need to?get an early start on all endeavors that we undertake! (And?earlier to bed, too!) Anyway, it was a beautiful sunrise that morning with just a wisp of ground fog and fun to see Don go out on the dawn patrol! Gonna be hot and humid today -- even my Nissan PU and the dog are?feeling the affects of increased density altitude! Fred B. La Crosse, WI? *??Please note, however,?that quadrupling the number of horses hitched to?a stage coach, hay wagon or manure spreader?will not necessarily result in doubled speed -- although I don't know if anyone has proved/disproved this.?Reminds me of the story my late dear Grampa told me about the horse-drawn manure spreader he was driving back around 1910 when a bee?stung one of the horses...said there was sh__ flying as high as the tree tops! ? ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:56 AM PST US From: Tom Winter Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article Ok, aviation fans. I've got a basement wall lined with shelves full of old aviation mags, and probably so do you. This article is not in my collection. Everybody, check in yours. First to find it, please scan it and post it. Or give the magazine name and date. From there I can get it through interlibrary loan. "Years ago, Peter M. Bowers wrote an article titled something like this: PIETENPOL: THE PASTURE PILOT'S PRIDE AND JOY. He pretty well summed up the Pietenpol's capabilities and limitations and ended by saying that the Pietenpol is in a class by itself as a sportplane..." ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:22 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article I scanned the article several years ago and it's on mykitplane.com..... -----Original Message----- From: "Tom Winter" Sent: 8/7/07 9:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article Ok, aviation fans. I've got a basement wall lined with shelves full of old aviation mags, and probably so do you. This article is not in my collection. Everybody, check in yours. First to find it, please scan it and post it. Or give the magazine name and date. From there I can get it through interlibrary loan. "Years ago, Peter M. Bowers wrote an article titled something like this: PIETENPOL: THE PASTURE PILOT'S PRIDE AND JOY. He pretty well summed up the Pietenpol's capabilities and limitations and ended by saying that the Pietenpol is in a class by itself as a sportplane..." ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article From: "Catdesigns" http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=181 -------- Chris Tracy WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127951#127951 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:58 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed Actually, Drag, a force, is proportional to the square of velocity, but the power to overcome drag is proportional to the cube of velocity. (Power = force x velocity) This means that doubling the speed requires EIGHT times the power, all other things remaining constant. The Super-Pooper-Duper Cub would need 1200 Hp. Mike Hardaway ---- tbyh@aol.com wrote: > Keep in mind that according to?some formula that I saw somewhere, to double an aircraft's speed will require?FOUR times the horsepower. I think this also applies to stock cars, baby buggies, bicycles and other conveyance contraptions.* For example, to get a 100-mph, 150-HP Super Cub up to 200 mph, would?require 600-hp. A Pratt & Whitney 1340 (T-6/SNJ engine) would probably do the trick, but then again you'd need to adjust the aircraft's weight and balance slightly! This would?also require a new name -- the Super-Duper Cub! [snip] ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed From: tbyh@aol.com I stand corrected! FWB -----Original Message----- From: bike.mike@charter.net Sent: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:33 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed Actually, Drag, a force, is proportional to the square of velocity, but the power to overcome drag is proportional to the cube of velocity. (Power = force x velocity) This means that doubling the speed requires EIGHT times the power, all other things remaining constant. The Super-Pooper-Duper Cub would need 1200 Hp. Mike Hardaway ---- tbyh@aol.com wrote: > Keep in mind that according to?some formula that I saw somewhere, to double an aircraft's speed will require?FOUR times the horsepower. I think this also applies to stock cars, baby buggies, bicycles and other conveyance contraptions.* For example, to get a 100-mph, 150-HP Super Cub up to 200 mph, would?require 600-hp. A Pratt & Whitney 1340 (T-6/SNJ engine) would probably do the trick, but then again you'd need to adjust the aircraft's weight and balance slightly! This would?also require a new name -- the Super-Duper Cub! [snip] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:03 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: New web site on mid air collision avoidance comment solicitation Its not often we get a chance to add our comments to a developing website, however One of the safety professional boards I belong to had a posting pertaining to a new website to prevent mid air colissions, I asked the developer Craig Schilder if he would have a problem with my reposting in the POA and AOPA to solicite feed back from pilots. He encourage the idea. Following is that posting fo your review, consideration and comment directly to Craig: One of our offices is developing this website to prevent midair collisions with military aircraft. _http://www.seeandavoid.org/_ (http://www.seeandavoid.org/) would you all give this a look and let me know of any improvements needed and your thoughts about the effort. Craig Schilder DoD Pentagon support Accident Prevention Services Arlington, VA 22202 O 703-521-0405 C 703-399-6520 _Craig.schilder@comcast.net_ (mailto:Craig.schilder@comcast.net) John Recine View Public Profile Send a private message to John Recine Send email to John Recine Visit John Recine's homepage! Find More Posts by John Recine Add John Recine to Your Buddy List (http://forums.aopa.org/report.php?p=542337) (http://forums.aopa.org/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=542337) (http://forums.aopa.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=542337) (http://forums.aopa.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=542337) (http://forums.aopa.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=542337) John Recine _View Public Profile_ (http://forums.aopa.org/member.php?u=888) _Send a private message to John Recine_ (http://forums.aopa.org/private.php?do=newpm&u=888) _Send email to John Recine_ (http://forums.aopa.org/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=888) _Find More Posts by John Recine_ (http://forums.aopa.org/search.php?do=finduser&u=888) _Add John Recine to Your Buddy List_ (http://forums.aopa.org/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=buddy&u=888) http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:34 AM PST US From: "Dave Abramson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed Since the Pietenpol wing is designed "with a notch of flaps" in it I do not think you could double the speed. We would never hear the story from the pilot who tried it. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of bike.mike@charter.net Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed Actually, Drag, a force, is proportional to the square of velocity, but the power to overcome drag is proportional to the cube of velocity. (Power = force x velocity) This means that doubling the speed requires EIGHT times the power, all other things remaining constant. The Super-Pooper-Duper Cub would need 1200 Hp. Mike Hardaway ---- tbyh@aol.com wrote: > Keep in mind that according to?some formula that I saw somewhere, to double an aircraft's speed will require?FOUR times the horsepower. I think this also applies to stock cars, baby buggies, bicycles and other conveyance contraptions.* For example, to get a 100-mph, 150-HP Super Cub up to 200 mph, would?require 600-hp. A Pratt & Whitney 1340 (T-6/SNJ engine) would probably do the trick, but then again you'd need to adjust the aircraft's weight and balance slightly! This would?also require a new name -- the Super-Duper Cub! [snip] ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:54 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed do not archive I don't like where this is going! The next step for aircraft makers after WWII was creating slicker designs that did the job with moderate HP. I have a 1948 Bonanza that got great speed from 185 HP simply by being aerodynamic. a Piet streamlined that much would be a? Blue Skies, Steve Dortch 1948 Bonanza just lurking the Piet list Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: bike.mike@charter.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed > > Actually, Drag, a force, is proportional to the square of > velocity, but the power to overcome drag is proportional to the > cube of velocity. (Power = force x velocity) > This means that doubling the speed requires EIGHT times the power, > all other things remaining constant. The Super-Pooper-Duper Cub > would need 1200 Hp. > Mike Hardaway > > > ---- tbyh@aol.com wrote: > > Keep in mind that according to?some formula that I saw > somewhere, to double an aircraft's speed will require?FOUR times > the horsepower. I think this also applies to stock cars, baby > buggies, bicycles and other conveyance contraptions.* For example, > to get a 100-mph, 150-HP Super Cub up to 200 mph, would?require > 600-hp. A Pratt & Whitney 1340 (T-6/SNJ engine) would probably do > the trick, but then again you'd need to adjust the aircraft's > weight and balance slightly! This would?also require a new name -- > the Super-Duper Cub! > [snip] > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:50 PM PST US From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed do not archive >a Piet streamlined that much would be a? RV-14 ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:44 PM PST US From: James Nichols Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stillwater, OK New member Hello, Just joined the group and am thinking (dreaming) of building something. Looks like it will be a Pietenpol or Flybaby. I live in Stillwater Oklahoma and was wondering if there were any Pietenpols in the area. I get over to Tulsa fairly regularly so if there are any in that area they would be easy to visit also. Thanks in advance. James Nichols --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:28 PM PST US From: "Terry Hall" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stillwater, OK New member James, I'm building a Sky Scout (single seat sibling of the Air Camper) in Ada. Terry Hall ----- Original Message ----- From: James Nichols To: Pietenpol list Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stillwater, OK New member Hello, Just joined the group and am thinking (dreaming) of building something. Looks like it will be a Pietenpol or Flybaby. I live in Stillwater Oklahoma and was wondering if there were any Pietenpols in the area. I get over to Tulsa fairly regularly so if there are any in that area they would be easy to visit also. Thanks in advance. James Nichols ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:17 PM PST US From: pietn38b@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stillwater, OK New member James There are three including mine on a field just north of Tulsa. Actually just s.e. of Collinsville. Be glad to show mine and maybe the others. Jim Ballew http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:47 PM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stillwater, OK New member James, I'm down in Norman, and have a flying A-75 powered GN-1 Air Camper. I fly it pretty regularly. You are welcome to come see it sometime. Chuck Gantzer is up in Witchita, and I know there are at least three Piets in the OKC area under construction, including Chet Peek's Model A Piet which is also here in Norman. And of course there is Terry in Ada who is building a Sky Scout. Chet Peek's Pietenpol Book: http://www.threepeakspub.com On September 8th I'm having a fly-in at the airfield where I keep my plane, you should come down. Maybe Terry can make it also. Chet will probably be there if he is in town. Everyone is welcome, flying or driving. More information on the fly-in: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin http://www.dfwpilots.com/board/index.php?showtopic=3208 Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting James Nichols : > Hello, > > Just joined the group and am thinking (dreaming) of building > something. Looks like it will be a Pietenpol or Flybaby. I live in > Stillwater Oklahoma and was wondering if there were any Pietenpols in > the area. I get over to Tulsa fairly regularly so if there are any in > that area they would be easy to visit also. > > Thanks in advance. > > James Nichols ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:31 PM PST US From: Michael Conkling Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Stillwater, OK New member Stillwater, OK??! I've got plenty of time in that pattern in a C-150 & Aeronca 7AC -- granted it was all in the early 70's! ;-) We also have college buddies around Tulsa (Sandsprings, OK) Careful, there may be a need for a flying "Eskimo Joe's" shirt!! (in a Piet , of course!) Been there, too! Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS James Nichols wrote: > Hello, > > Just joined the group and am thinking (dreaming) of building > something. Looks like it will be a Pietenpol or Flybaby. I live in > Stillwater Oklahoma and was wondering if there were any Pietenpols in > the area. I get over to Tulsa fairly regularly so if there are any in > that area they would be easy to visit also. > > Thanks in advance. > > James Nichols? > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:55 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article Wow, I forgot how low-res those Bowers article scans were... If anyone wants a higher res version, email me offlist (I may not know how to email "offlist" but maybe you do!) JM -----Original Message----- >From: Catdesigns >Sent: Aug 7, 2007 11:05 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article > > >http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=181 > >-------- >Chris Tracy >WestCoastPiet.com > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127951#127951 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.